Identifying a British Army cap Badge ( NOT IRA or Volunteers) Cork Connection

To Whom It May Concern,

I’ve been viewing your excellent website “The Irish War” for a period of several months now and have been very impressed with the information that it contains. In that regards, I am wondering if anyone can help me in identifying what regiment my great uncle Patrick Flynn might have belonged to, based on the uniform that he is wearing in the photo that I’ve attached. On the back of the photo there is written: “Patrick Flynn – IV Solider – 1905”. He is pictured with his younger brother Cornelius. Both were from Clonakilty, Co. Cork, Ireland. Patrick was born 1883. Con was born 1894. Patrick immigrated to the United States in 1906 to Cincinnati, Ohio, where I live, while Con stayed in Clonakilty, dying there in 1966.

I’ve tried blowing the image of the “Badge Cap” up to see what regiment my great uncle might have possibly belong to, but so far I’ve been unable to match it to any “Badge Cap” that I’ve seen on the internet. I’m assuming the “IV” on the back of the photo stands for “Irish Volunteer”, but I’m not positive, it could mean Fourth.

I’ve been told that the Uniform is that of a “First World War – British Army Khaki Service Uniform” – possibly a Calvary or Royal Horse Artillery unit based on; the ammunition bandoleer, “Cor Blimey Hat” and puttees.

Although, the uniform does seem to match the “1902 Pattern Service Dress” for the British army in WW1, the picture is not from the WW1 time period, because again, the photo is dated 1905 on the back and Patrick emigrated to the United States in 1906, and was living here in Cincinnati, Ohio during WW1. Also, if the picture was from the 1913 – 1918 time period — Con, the young boy in the picture would have been in his early 20’s – which is not the case, as you can see. If the picture is dated correctly, i.e., 1905 – the brothers would have been around 22 and 11 years of age respectively in 1905, which seems to match the picture correctly.

I know your website deals mostly with Irish medals, Irish militaria and uniforms of the 1916 Easter Rebellion and the Irish War of Independence, but maybe someone can recognize the Cap Badge, and tell me what army regiment my great uncle belonged to, because so far I’ve had no luck in identifying his regiment.

I would appreciate any information that you can send my way.

Thanks in advance for your help, I’m looking forward towards your reply.

Thank you,

Sincerely,

Tim Flynn




4 replies
  1. admin
    admin says:

    A Comment by Donnacha de Grant :
    Since another reader did identify the badge, I only raise because there’s an interesting puzzle with the photo. The hat the man is wearing is the so called ‘Gor Blimey’ hat. The problem is that the photo is evidently taken in 1905 (owners assertion and by dint of the age difference between the two subjects and the fact that the man moved to USA in 1906) but this hat wasn’t issued until 1914:

    http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/utah/894/ukcapwin.htm

    “Thus was born the cap that officially was known as the Cap, winter, SD, but almost universally known as the “Gor Blimey” cap. The first issue of this cap was authorized in GRO 377 27/11/1914 in the winter scale of issue. It was intended to be worn by troops employed in active areas. Those in England were still mandated to wear the SD cap, although issue of the winter cap was made to those proceeding overseas.”

    Obviously if the dates that the photo’s owner has are correct then the presumed issue date of the cap cannot be correct. Either the ref to GRO 377 27/11/1914 is incorrect and the cap was in fact issued prior to 1906, or an experimental issue of the cap appeared at that time, or the dating of the photo is wrong.

    There’s anice example of the 1901-1919 Army Service Corps badge here:

    http://www.ioffer.com/i/ww1-1911-1918-british-army-service-corps-asc-cap-badge-167252109

    A google search will show many examples.

    Regards,

    Donnacha

  2. Brendan
    Brendan says:

    This one is a little confusing.The man in the picture is definitely wearing a cor-blimey hat which were not issued till winter 1915,this hat had the ear warmers and a soft peak as pictured and he is a member of the Army Service Corps as pointed out already.If Patrick was born in 1883 he would of been 22/23 years of age when the photo was taken in 1905,a soldier could not enlist into the army until he was eighteen and would of had to sign up for a certain period of time,normally a seven year period with a five year reserve period afterwards.Patrick would of enlisted then based on this at 1901/02 at the earliest if he enlisted at the age of 18 which causes a clash with the length of service period he would of had and his emigration date unless something medically had been found wrong with him to release him from the army.Again on the Irish census there is only one family of Flynn’s living in Clonakilty in 1901 which do not show a Patrick or Cornelius,there is however another census return for a Flynn family living in a place called Kilmeen which is very close to Clonakilty which does show a Patrick and Cornelius Flynn living there,this is the only combination that I can find that match these two names but there ages do not match,Patrick is shown as been 14 in 1901 and Cornelius age 9.

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Kilmeen/Glentanefinnane/1147114/

    If you have details such as his service number then it can be established what year he actually enlisted into the service,this would help immensely.I myself have been gathering information on men from Clonakilty who served during WW1 and have not found any soldier by the name of Patrick Flynn during this period.
    Regards
    Brendan

  3. admin
    admin says:

    Garry,

    Just emailing you to see if there is any way to communicate by email
    with two of the gentlemen that posted comments to my post about
    “Identifying a British Army Cap Badge” from February 28, 2011.

    I wanted to thank them for their comments, answer a few of their
    questions, and also possibly ask them a few follow-up questions. They
    both have brought up some issues regarding the photos that I sent you to
    post. The gentlemen, I would like to contact are Dunnacha de Grant &
    Brendan. Brendan, seem especially interested in gathering information
    about men from Clonakilty that served in WWI. Hopefully, by
    corresponding with Brendan in particular, since he mentioned Clonakilty
    in his comments, I can answer a few of his questions, and he could
    possibly help me in obtaining information about my great uncle.

    Thanks,

    Tim Flynn
    tflynn@fuse.net

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